Secrets of Chinese Medicine with Qi Kung Master Stanley Chung



Graduated from Chengdu TCM University
Registered TCM Practitioner
Tai Chi Quen and Qi Kung Master

In 2011, Master Stanley was invited by Guangxi TCM University in China to help perform western research to prove the effectiveness of Traditional Chinese Medicine in healing a wide range of conditions.

During this time, he amassed invaluable data and insight in to which TCM healing modality works best for what conditions including suboptimal health (e.g. fatigue, recurrent infections, sleep problems),chronic disease (pain, diabetes, benign tumors and cancers), and emotional issues (e.g. depression, stress, anxiety).


Master Stanley’s Philosophy

Master Stanley believes holism is the key of health as we are whole and complete human beings, our bodies being inseparable from our mind and emotions. As such, he will often approach chronic physical complaints that seem stagnant and resistant to treatment, from deeper emotional levels.

Life is a learning, disease is a misunderstanding. Klick um zu Tweeten

He believes a harmonious mind is the cornerstone of a balanced body. He also believes there are five natural rhythms that dominate our body, which are The 5 Elements of Water, Fire, Earth, Metal & Wood. Therefore, full healing has to appreciate and work with these rhythms, and not against them.

Master Stanley is one of a few TCM Practitioners in Hong Kong to use both advanced western Bio-impedence technology (ESG) together with traditional Chinese clinical diagnoses, like face, tongue and pulse reading. This integrated approach can provide a much clearer picture of subtle chemical, hormonal and energy imbalances in the body, and tailor-make each client’s treatment plan more for a speedy recovery.


But the fire people always carry happiness. This is their reward. And water element, they cannot have a lot of happiness. Klick um zu Tweeten


List of Topics

  1. In TCM, we’re not just finding local problem. We’re always asking the body what is the holistic problem.
  2. Fear is because of your adrenal system. It’s very easy to activate it.
  3. How would somebody be able to support his adrenal system to better be able to overcome fears that are there?
  4. How is it possible with herbal medicine to support the adrenals?
  5. This world is good for water people but dangerous world for fire people.
  6. Life is a learning, disease is a misunderstanding.
  7. TCM healing is soul healing.






The Order & Kaos of Human Potential – the podcast about the science and the art, the known and the unknown territories of human performance and health.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Welcome back and I’m Gerrit Keferstein. Hope you’re all doing great. It’s been a really good week, the last 10 days. I’m back in Sonora on Bali. Before that, I was travelling a lot. For 13 days I went to Adelaide, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and Hong Kong which was really cool but also really busy and I’m glad to be back here doing a lot of sport, doing a lot of movement, lots of working a lot. We’re working on a pretty cool project right now regarding female hormones and solutions for female hormone problems and also regarding health and human sports performance.



                            That’s week’s podcast had a pretty good impact. I got a lot of feedback from that. A lot of people asked me what I really think about the stuff and I told you all the stuff said on the podcast is what I really think about it. I think it can be a great solution, just one piece of the puzzle. And if you have some comments on that, shoot me a message on Twitter @GKeferstein but to solidify what I think about this, I wrote an article on this whole topic where I really gotten to depth on the different aspects because I think there’s more aspects to the solution than just the extra weight. There’s more to that



                            As we’re talking about the home page, go there, check out that article but as you do it, also says subscribe to the newsletter. It’s are on the top, it’s yellow and it says “‘Subscribe Here for the Monthly Performance Digest” and that’s all it is really. I don’t have any cool bonuses to offer you at this point except for once a month I send you the summary of all the new content I have on my homepage including all blog posts, all podcasts, all Flow Food Fridays and anything else cool that’s going on there. I’m not going to spam you. I hate spam. I really hate spam I feel like every week I’m unsubscribing from 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or irrelevant newsletters I get subscribed to you without me knowing. So, trust me I hate spam. I try to just send you valuable stuff. And if you don’t like it, that’s fine too. Just hit ‘Unsubscribe’ again.



                            So, if you haven’t noticed from the intro, the name of this podcast is The Order & Kaos of Human Potential and what that means for me is when we want to really achieve something valuable, something really special, we have to strike a really good balance between order and chaos, between the structured and the unstructured, between science and art and we also got to be cautious to not be stuck in one mode of thinking, not be stuck in art, not be stuck in science and especially when it comes to human performance and health, I feel it’s very important to strike that balance between science and art and on the one hand be smart enough to use science because science is really valuable in keeping us from doing bullshit stuff and keeping us from fooling ourselves but on the other hand we’ve got to be brave enough to lean out from science and do something that’s not researched when we have a solid feeling that this is valuable and that’s the balance of science and art in health and human performance. And sometimes when we do stuff that’s, let’s say, ahead of science where there’s no academic research for, it can be complete bullshit like Walter Freeman when he traveled the United States with his ‘lobotomobile’ and did lobotomies on people. At that time it was a pretty accepted method to treat mental disease but we would have found out that’s bullshit. But when we lean out and do something that’s not researched yet, it can also be really valuable. Most of the Olympic medals are won by doing stuff that’s not researched. And also in medical terms, there’s many situations where brave people followed their instincts and developed something cool like, for example, Ignatz Semmelweis when he discovered that it’s a smart idea to wash our hands with alcohol before we do surgery on people. So, leaning out of the way from academic research can go either way but it’s necessary. It’s necessary to innovate, to improve and find solutions to real problems but always keeping them in mind to use the scientific method for that. So, there might not be academic research but we still need to use the scientific method for that which is to test something and trying something and then retesting it and see if it worked in either direction and if it didn’t, stop doing it. That’s really what this podcast is about. It’s about striking that balance of science and art, of the structured and the unstructured but always with a clear thinking, with a clear thought process of the scientific method which can basically be summarized as just not doing stupid stuff.



                            Today’s podcast is about a really hot topic when we talk about the balance of science and art, especially in medicine. Today’s topic is traditional Chinese medicine and we can read all we want about traditional Chinese medicine in the books and we can read the Yellow Emperor but I’ve always wanted to meet somebody who’s really done it and truly in it. That’s why I flew to Hong Kong.  Hong Kong is a hotbed for people who practice traditional Chinese medicine. I tried to find the best there is and I ended up with Master Stanley Chong and he graduated from Chengdu University. He’s obviously a TCM practitioner for many, many years.  This guy’s 60 years old but he looks like a freaking 22-year-old. He’s bald but as noticed his skin, I was thinking “That’s about as fresh as fuck really.” It’s insane. He’s a master of traditional Chinese medicine and the master of Qui Gong. What’s special about him is that he has scientific approach about everything he does. Actually, in 2011 he worked with the University of Guangxi in China to perform Western research methods on traditional Chinese medicine. So, he really knows what he’s talking about. He’s a practitioner, first and foremost, but he has a very clear way of thinking. He uses a scientific method of thinking without having academic research to support what he’s doing and he’s doing it very successfully.



                            It’s a difficult to listen to if you’re not really into understanding traditional Chinese medicine and understanding true healing because we go into depth on many things where if you come from a western scientific conventional medicine background, you’d would say “Oh, that’s bullshit.” Yeah maybe but maybe it’s not. So, enjoy.



                            Okay. So, like you said, let’s go through the TCM process and you just guide me through and tell me what you’re looking for and what you’re doing.



Stanley Chong:       Okay. For TCM, we’re not just finding local problem. We’re always asking the body what is the holistic problem. That means we want to know the background of the disease, not the disease only. So, through different approaches, let’s say, from the eye, from hearing, from the smell and from touch. Touch is for pulse diagnosis.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, the pulse diagnosis…



Stanley Chong:       It’s not the pulse we’re testing. Let’s say if you have a symptom – I have runny nose, I have headache. So, with the diagnosis of pulse, I’m trying to locate this symptom with your blood circulation system, your nerve system. So, we use this touch to realize what happened. We say that if the starting of a problem is in the shallow part, that may not affect the circulation. So, if I find that circulation change, that may be something that’s not from outside. It’s from inside.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay. So, you’re not locally looking for the disease but you’re looking for the function of the body, if the body works right.



Stanley Chong:       Yes.



Gerrit Keferstein:    And you start with the pulse diagnosis where you look for circulation to see if the disease or something that isn’t right, if it comes from the inside.



Stanley Chong:       Yes. So, we see both sides.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you do both sides. So, just now you’re touching me and just feeling for …



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, touching you on the wrist, this side we always … I’m finding the Chi.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Left side is Chi?



Stanley Chong:       Left side is the blood circulation. Right side is the Chi.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Right side is the Chi and the left side is …



Stanley Chong:       So, we see whether the problem is related to the Chi or to the blood circulation.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, blood circulation or Chi, right? Now, you’re feeling left sided. So, you’re looking for blood circulation.



Stanley Chong:       Yes.



Gerrit Keferstein:    What are you exactly feeling for? You have three fingers on my wrist. What are you feeling for there?



Stanley Chong:       We can explain it this way. If the blood circulation is okay, we say you’re healthy. So, we’re finding this active, the flowing of the blood vessels.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you have active flow.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, yeah, we feel that. We also feel the humidity of your skin to see whether the skin’s dry or wet.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Dry or wet skin, okay.



Stanley Chong:       So, we see the blood circulation.  We collect this information but now don’t judge or know what it is.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, no judgment at this point. Right now you’re just observing, you’re taken in all the information with all your senses. Like you said, you feel but you also look at me, you smell and you hear.



Stanley Chong:       Yes and I will see, give me your tongue.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Tongue out? Okay.



Stanley Chong:       Yes. So, we see one more information from the tongue. Your blood circulation, humidity, your digestive system. So, we see data is starting to cross.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Right. So, you have the blood circulation, you have the Chi, you have the pulse, you have humidity of the skin, you look at my tongue that tells you something about the digestive system. What are you looking for in the tongue? Is there something we can say “Oh, I see this. It leads my mind to this direction.”



Stanley Chong:       Chinese always follow a system called Five Elements System. That means relate an organ from outside. Let’s say, the tongue is related to your heart valve.  This is always related to your Chi pulse.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, right hand pulse is Chi pulse.



Stanley Chong:       Both sides because this is hand, this is the lumbar region. So, we collect the data regarding the lung. The lung is always talking about breathing, the immunity here, and even it affects your immunity, your lung defense situation. So, we see if it is running too much, that means your lung is under-defending. There should be something wrong that causes this defending.  So, I will see from the pulse. So, the tongue, we talk about it’s related to your hart pulse. This is Chinese traditional theory. Long ago they found that this too is related.  So, when I see a tongue, I will see … Let’s say I diagnose you as under fever but when it’s fever, it’s affecting your heart function and I can see it from your tongue.



Gerrit Keferstein:    What do you see in the tongue that tells you that heart is affected by the fever?



Stanley Chong:       Color.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Which color is it?



Stanley Chong:       Red color meals overrunning. Why it is overrunning? Because it’s defending.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Does it mean the heart doesn’t pump enough or it pumps more? I’m just trying to understand in western terms.



Stanley Chong:       Because you’ll find that if the heart is under attack by some bacteria, it will defend. First of all, it will raise up the immunity from the chest. So, the chest immunity rises up. It means the whole system will run fast. That means it’s trying to do defense. So, we know your heart is under defense.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay So, the red tongue means the heart but also the whole immune system is in defense mode, it tries to fight off something.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah. So, if I find this, I also will touch your head, touch your skin to feel the heat. If here I’m going to find heat is flowing through my heat.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Oh, you’re not really touching. You’re just getting close and you feel the heat is going towards you.



Stanley Chong:       So, even if its pumping so much, I can still feel with my hand, at this distance I’ll feel it. So, that is the kind of diagnosis that I’m trying to use some kind of touch, some kind of watch, some kind of hear.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, what is the opposite? The red tongue is the active system. Is there something similar on the opposite side where the tongue is maybe just too white or not enough color? What does that mean?



Stanley Chong:       If too white, we can see the circulation system is weak and this part is weak. Therefore, lack of blood will come to the tongue. The tongue is very sensitive to this. And that means the heart and the skin, the first to reflect the hot situation. So, I see the tongue. Then I can see the situation of your heart. Let’s say I touch your pulse, I find that it’s fairly slow and very, let’s say, something like the body wants to protect its inside temperature. That means, it will make you cold. So, I will find here.



Gerrit Keferstein:    I don’t feel cold now.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah. I see your tongue, if your tongue is whitish, that means the circulation for you is just small circulation. They’re not in the attacking …



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, we have a centralized circulation that is not getting out and you say this is a protective mechanism where the circulation stays in the center of the body but doesn’t come out and you feel that in the pulse but you also feel that in the tongue or you see that in the tongue.



Stanley Chong:       Yes. So, this is very important that will help your body to see what it is doing. If it’s doing defense, you’re strong, it’s in protect mode. You want to support it for protecting. If you want to defend, then you have to give more power for its defense. So, TCM is always trying to understand what is the meaning of this to the body.



Gerrit Keferstein:    And also in what situation is the body right now. Is it in defense mode right now? Is that in danger mode, protection mode or does it have all the resources to grow, to flourish? Where is it right now? And you say my pulse is kind of weak, weak pulse, white tongue, you say my circulation is in protection mode.  So, what else would you look for? You have the pulse. You have the tongue? What else are you looking for?



Stanley Chong:       That is we digest for one system. We call it heart system, the circulation.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, these two things for the heart and the circulation.



Stanley Chong:       And also trying to understand what is the nerve system and the Chi. We touch here, we see sometimes this spot is running too much or not running enough. This spot is going to the other side, running very slow or it’s too strong, same thing. If it’s too strong, it means that this circulation is running to the head and also the nerve system is strong. That is very important in trying to avoid going in a stroke. So, those are some of the way. The risk of this system is stroke. So, we’re trying to see your tongue again. Normally, if people are going into a stroke or tend to be in stroke, they’ll feel dizzy. 



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, just to summarize, you have the circulation system where you look at the pulse, you look at the tongue to look for is the body in protection mode in the centralized blood circulation or is the body not in protection mode, so the circulation comes through the wrist and comes to the tongue. And then you look for the nervous system. For the nervous system, again, you touch the wrist but you feel for the skin, you look if the skin is wet or dry. And then also for the nervous system you think of stroke because when the nervous system is not right, stroke is something down the road, could happen.



Stanley Chong:       You also counter the blood circulation. If both side is overrunning, we estimate the most risk of these two overrunning is stroke. So, we’re going to another kind of diagnosis to see if you have this symptom or you’ve developed this symptom for the disease. So, you see the tongue, if people are going to be in stroke, the tongue will be …



Gerrit Keferstein:    Tongue to one side, yes.  Once they have the stroke already, you will see the tongue go to one side.



Stanley Chong:       It’s not flexible. You can tell him to do this.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Yeah, he can’t.



Stanley Chong:       Or you can us the blood pressure tester to test his blood pressure.  So, TCM is trying to avoid that. And in the traditional Chinese medicine, the theory is that we are trying to avoid symptoms that happen. It’s not cure. I cannot say we’re not strong in cure. We’re more concerned about the defense, that means prevent something.



Gerrit Keferstein:    I understand. So, when somebody has a stroke, TCM might be able to help but it’s probably not the best thing to help. It’s probably better to go to a Western clinic to be treated for the stroke but what TCM tries to do is to prevent, to not have the stroke in the first place. That’s why you look for the function of the circulation, the function of the nervous to system to look for signs is this person going towards a stroke or not.



Stanley Chong:       So, let’s say a Western doctor, the relationship in Hong Kong of a patient and doctor is only 5 minutes but in TCM you have to be a friend with your doctor because he’s already carrying out something that is the family doctor function. So, we make friends first. We’re not talking about treatment. We’re not talking about what hurts or what medicine is for you because we say that if you realize the problem is coming, the good method is change your lifestyle – right sleeping, right waking up, right diet, right exercise or maybe right meditation.  So, we use this technique more than medicine because this really can heal you. Don’t rely on medicine. Don’t rely on doctor. Rely on yourself.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, the medicine is maybe just a drop of water on the hot stone but the lifestyle, the sleep, the right food, the right movement, the right meditation, this is what can really … It’s the big change.



Stanley Chong:       This represents your real protecting mode is on this area, not on the medicine.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay. So, let’s come back to the diagnosis. You have the blood circulation. You have the nervous system. What else are you looking for?



Stanley Chong:       The digestive system.



Gerrit Keferstein:    The digestive system. How do you evaluate that?



Stanley Chong:       See the tongue first because the tongue is connected to your digestive system. Then see your tongue, your outer touch, the blood circulation, the nerve circulation. We always make you to lie down on the back to touch your belly. So, we have all kinds of touches. Then we see … sometimes not just touch. Let’s say people eating garlic, within two hours I will know … garlic. So, the body will have smell. Something we find is a burning smell, inside, maybe it’s under inflammation.



Gerrit Keferstein:    You can smell inflammation.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, when you feel some burning or heating, then you can diagnose by smelling.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Inflammation in the digestive system is something that is very, very common. Many, many people get it especially where I come from with a changing diet, with industrialized food. Many people have issues with inflamed digestive tract. How do you diagnose it like what do you look for, what do you see in the pulse when you say “Oh, I think it’s digestive inflammation.” What do you see in the tongue when you say “Oh, I think it’s digestive inflammation.”



Stanley Chong:       All of the diagnosis in TCM should be combined together. Let’s say I touch here. In TCM, the traditional way, we find that the first thing is related to this part.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, just for the listeners, your index finger is right at my wrist and you say this index finger gives you an idea of digestive system from the sternum up.



Stanley Chong:       Here, it’s from here to here.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, second finger is from the sternum to the hips.



Stanley Chong:       The last finger is from here to the neck.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay. So, last finger is from the hips down. So, the middle finger is really what you’re listening.



Stanley Chong:       Yes. So, we’re listening from the second finger. We see your tongue. We will smell, if I find any smell.  So, all this together, we’ll let you lie down. If I find you’re overrunning for your digestive system, we will estimate why is it overrunning. There are two reasons. One reason is, it’s still under digestive, it’s very active or you have inflammation. So, that caused the blood circulation to overrun.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Overrunning meaning you feel a very active middle finger or what do you mean?



Stanley Chong:       You’re always going up. Going up means its’ fast, too fast. It’s not just here. Too fast you become like this. So, I find here, this finger…



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you feel pretty strong pulse?



Stanley Chong:       We can feel it.  Do you feel this finger?



Gerrit Keferstein:    I don’t smoke but right now I only feel the middle finger. So, what does it tell you? The peak means, again, to repeat, what does that mean if you feel the middle finger?



Stanley Chong:       Normally, you will feel free area if it’s not overrunning but because you have overrunning in the middle, so you feel only the middle. It doesn’t mean that this overrunning have anything but only this is too strong.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, when you have three fingers on the radial pulse, you only feel the middle finger. That tells you the digestive system is overrunning in that part between the sternum and the hips.



Stanley Chong:       So, I will let you lie down.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Yeah, let’s do that. Let’s touch.  So, I lie down and you just touch my belly?



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, touch different areas. Are you feeling?



Gerrit Keferstein:    No, nothing.  Little stinging.  Stinging.  Yeah, right now you’re pushing down into my tummy.



Stanley Chong:       Because here is the distribution of your organs. Here is the stomach.  This is the liver and gallbladder. So, this site is spleen. Okay, we’re going down to the small intestine. This is the small intestine. This is the small intestine. So, this is the big intestine. This is the big intestine. So, we touch the major organs of your body. So, if you have fever, let’s have, or you have ache maybe, maybe I’ll ask you did you take any antibiotic because of the fever?



Gerrit Keferstein:    No.



Stanley Chong:       How is your appetite?



Gerrit Keferstein:    Right now appetite is really big because the last three days I didn’t eat. I have a three-day fasting.



Stanley Chong:       Oh yeah, fasting.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, right now I’m really hungry. 



Stanley Chong:       So, this information is variable. We’ll combine all this information to think, logically think what happened in your body. So, maybe at the moment you’re hungry. Therefore, your stomach pulse is strong. It’s reasonable.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, is that usual? When somebody hasn’t eaten much, on a fast, that the middle pulse, the stomach pulse gets really strong?



Stanley Chong:       In fact, this is a theory about this pulse, diagnosis. We will talk in detail with a course to tell you what kind of symptom, what kind of problem because I just saw you, you’re hungry, your stomach pulse is strong. It’s related. It’s one thing. I don’t touch your belly, I know your stomach is overrunning.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay. So, like you said, you don’t want to judge too early. You want to take in all the information. So, after you looked at the digestive system, you looked at the circulation and the nervous system, what is the next system you’d look at?



Stanley Chong:       First of all, we’ll try to know your digestive system. Most of disease is because of wrong diet. So, in the digestive system I will know at least 60% of the disease, the reason. When I say most of it is from the digestive system, so when I touch here, there should be some kind of symptom – pain, stiffness or something uncomfortable. So, we have to pulse diagnosis. We combine it together to see any clues to prove to one thing. We have this. We have this. I will see your tongue again to combine all this information to find the right reason for your body. In the beginning, you come in, I have to ask what is your symptom, what is your uncomfortable feeling? This is the main part. We have this main part to compare all this. It will be easy to find now one reason related to this problem.  Then we will find out the treatment method. It’s not just taking herbs. Acupuncture, massage … Nowadays in Western they’re doing lots of different kinds of healing. Let’s say the fiber, you’re touching the fiber or some kind of Qui Gong. All these things can help. Even some kind of Western herbs can help. So, first of all, we are trying to accurately define approximately in the right direction.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Yeah, really what you’re doing is you look not only for one thing that proves your idea. No, no, no, you say “I want to find at least two or three or four different …” Three things. So, actually what you doing is to triangulate to really focus in on the problem, look for at least three signs – “Okay, this is the problem the system of the body has.”  Then you start the treatment or then you have your diagnosis. You don’t have a diagnosis when you only see one thing.



Stanley Chong:       We just collect information in all diagnosis but we don’t justify. We first justify when we come to a point that we can justify. Every different TCM doctor has his own way but my way is like this.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, what else would we need to do to complete the TCM diagnosis? We get the pulse, we get the tongue, we get the digestive tract where you touched.



Stanley Chong:       Everything is under question. What is your problem? If you don’t have problem, TCM maybe is just education to tell you what to eat, tell you what is your body type, tell you what kind of exercise is good for you or understand your lifestyle.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Yeah. I mean, we can go at it this way. I have two minor problems, we can talk about these but then I would also be really interested for me to really be at my optimum, to perform closest to my potential. What else would you recommend for me? So, my two minor problems or my right foot hurts a little bit. I had a fighting competition two weeks ago and since then my right foot hurts a little bit. And the other thing is from the AC, I think, from the AC in the airplanes and also the hotel rooms, I’m really congested in the back of my throat and I always have this urge to spit something out and the I had this for the last four or five weeks. So, these are two minor things. They’re not big problems for me but maybe you have an idea from the TCM perspective.



Stanley Chong:       Because the I have to study lots of different kinds of technique.  I have different kind of technique for the heating.  Let’s say if it’s your neck problem, I’ll use some technique, let’s say, the Don method.



Gerrit Keferstein:    What’s it called?



Stanley Chong:       Don method.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Don method.



Stanley Chong:       I learned it from Germany.  This method is from Germany.  It’s for manipulation of your spine.  So, it’s very fast.  In 5 minutes you can release the pressure on your spine.  This is the first thing.  The second is the waist.  In TCM we say the kidney.



Gerrit Keferstein:    The waist represents the kidney.



Stanley Chong:       Yes, the waist is the system of kidney, let’s say it this way.  That means they talk about the circulation, they talk about the blood supply, they talk about the food supply.  So, if you have a problem with your digestion, that means you cannot turn the food energy to your body.  Your body will use your own stored energy.  Let’s say you have a waist problem.  Maybe this is all problem of …



Gerrit Keferstein:    Again, you’re talking about the waist now. What does it have to do with the foot? How is it related to the foot?



Stanley Chong:       Because the nerve system is related to your waist.  So, the connection should be the waist problem.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, when I say I have a foot problem, you think about the waist.



Stanley Chong:       I think about your spine.  I think about your nerve system.  I think about your nerve system connected to the foot.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you don’t actually look at the foot. You say “Okay, I want to see …”



Stanley Chong:       Just part of the problem.



Gerrit Keferstein:    You want to do that spine manipulation?  You want to show me that spine manipulation to treat the foot?  Would you like to do that?



Stanley Chong:       Yes, okay. 



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, I lie down on my back.



Stanley Chong:       Face down.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Face down. 



Stanley Chong:       So, first of all we’re checking.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Yeah, now you’re touching my back?  What are you looking for?  What are you touching for?



Stanley Chong:       I’ll see if there are any joint problem.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Looking for joint problems in my lower back, okay.



Stanley Chong:       And your muscle.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Muscle tightness or soft.  You’re now touching my sacrum and looking for balance there.



Stanley Chong:       Let me if there’s anything here.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Touching for pain in my piriformis area, yes.



Stanley Chong:       If you have pain here.



Gerrit Keferstein:    I don’t have pain.



Stanley Chong:       Do you have pain here?



Gerrit Keferstein:    Looking from the erector piriformis area.  No, there’s no pain there.  Now looking for balance in the sacrum.



Stanley Chong:       I touched your acupuncture point.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay, now you’re looking for acupuncture point on my left leg, the back of my leg. What point is that?  What acupuncture point? Part of what meridian this is?



Stanley Chong:       This meridian is the bladder meridian.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Of the bladder.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, this is bladder meridian. So, I try to find if you have fever, whether it’s caused by the fever.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you look if my foot pain is coming from the fever?



Stanley Chong:       Yeah.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay, interesting.



Stanley Chong:       Any pain?



Gerrit Keferstein:    It’s a little tender, yes.



Stanley Chong:       Any pain?



Gerrit Keferstein:    No. On the left side it was tender but on the right side …



Stanley Chong:       So, that means the circulation here is bit of a problem.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, the circulation problem, left side.



Stanley Chong:       So, we’re doing two things to solve it. We use the manipulation of some technique to open the stiffness of this part but I don’t find any stiffness.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, no stiffness in the hip but if there was stiffness, you would manipulate that to free up the … So, my sacrum is pretty free, you said.



Stanley Chong:       Any pain?



Gerrit Keferstein:    No, it’s good.  Let’s say I feel pretty good around the hips and the lower back.



Stanley Chong:       How about here?



Gerrit Keferstein:    No, it’s good.



Stanley Chong:       So, it seems that it is not a physical problem, your leg pain. It’s maybe be because you have some fever.



Gerrit Keferstein:    I did have some fever, yes, just before the pain started.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah. So, therefore, I will not be doing any manipulation for your spine. I just give you herbs.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Okay. So, because my foot pain it not related to physical problem but you felt there might be a fever related to that, that’s really interesting because I had this fight competition two weeks ago when the pain started but actually the week before the fight, I was having fever. I was just laying in bed, I didn’t have any preparation for the fight actually, I just lied in bed and had fever and cough. So, that’s interesting. So, you’ll treat it with herbs, yeah?



Stanley Chong:       Yes, we will open some herbs for you instead of doing the physical manipulation.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Because it’s internal problem, you take internal treatment and not physical.



Stanley Chong:       Sometimes it’s very interesting that after herbal treatment, then the fever is gone. Then you find real pain in your feet again on physical exam.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, by treating the internal problem with herbs and the fever’s gone, the heat, as you say, in TCM, I think, when that’s gone, there might be even a little more pain but that’s the physical pain that shows up when the internal pain’s gone.



Stanley Chong:       Yes, we have to define the problem is on which layer. We tell about it this as bladder meridian.  This meridian is always activated by fever.  So, we will see “Oh, if we clear the fever, we still have that problem” and that problem we will solve by acupuncture or manipulation because what TCM understands is that any part of the bladder meridian has blockage and in the parts close to the legs or close to hands you have reaction.  So, we are looking layer by layer going insider deeper and deeper to find the problem. Sometimes some problem, even if it’s hiding, we will take it out and solve it because in TCM you find that the earlier the treatment, the better.  This is what we understand.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, what herbs are you thinking of if you’re looking for treatment of fever? You were talking about a foot problem but you said “No, it’s related to the fever.” And what kind of herbs are you thinking about to treat a fever in TCM?



Stanley Chong:       In TCM there’s a very long history of using herbs to cure something we call cold problem. Fever is always about cold. Always the reason is cold.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, the problem in a fever is the cold and that’s why the body heats up because it wants to fight the cold.



Stanley Chong:       Yes.



Gerrit Keferstein:    That’s interesting.



Stanley Chong:       This is original understanding about fever. Nowadays it’s different. Nowadays we see the heat. So, we treat the heat but the heat means your body’s defense doesn’t destroy it but help it go out.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you don’t want to lower the fever. Let it go because what the body really needs is warmth. It has too much cold and that’s why it started with a fever. If you lower that fever with the medicine, it’s not good for the body.



Stanley Chong:       It’s not good for anything.



Gerrit Keferstein:    It’s not good for anything, okay. So, you’re saying maybe two weeks ago when I had that fever, my body has a cold problem. So, what herbs would you use in TCM to give the body warmth.



Stanley Chong:       There are so many herbs that can help, for this purpose. So, this depends on the pulse, whether it’s weak or strong; and your age, whether old, whether young; in your age group, whether you’re elderly age or young age; woman or man. It depends. After all this consideration, we will be giving some herbs. We have some quantity.



Gerrit Keferstein:    You have some main herbs where you say, I mean, even if woman or man, young or old, but this herb or these two or three herbs, they usually always help with a cold problem.



Stanley Chong:       We will say it this way. We may have a central formula. For a woman we will use one, two, three, four additional to these herbs.  If for old man, this one, two, three, four. If for a child, we have one, two, three, four. So, everybody’s formula is tailored. It’s not one single formula for all in TCM.  It’s tailor made.



Gerrit Keferstein:    And you don’t have a formula for disease like we started. You have a formula for an individual body’s disbalance in circulation, nervous system, and the immune system. So, you have the central formula and then from there you have additional, depending on the body and depending on the individual human being. What is the central formula you use for cold treatment mostly?



Stanley Chong:       Let’s say if I diagnose this is because of a weak heart power, so with this formula we’ll try to stimulate your heart power. If I find the main reason for this problem is because of your digestive system or somebody has the whole life digestive problem, they need some herb to start in the beginning, then we treat. So, this diagnosis is something that will locate the problem. Let’s say you have five elements. You have to locate which element has this problem. Let’s say I find that you have the water element problem because this part is the root, the leg is related to the kidney, so you have kidney problem. Maybe fear is always your foundational problem. Fear is related to the water element. So, that’s why I will ask more questions about this. Then it’s the fever, then it’s the symptom, layer by layer to cure.



Gerrit Keferstein:    As you said, the foundational thing, you look at me, you’re talking to me, it’s fear. And then we have the water and then we have all the other things but your treatment would revolve around fear and around water.  Okay. So, what additional questions … One thing before we go into the fear and before we go into the water, again going back to those herbs, what are the main traditional herbs you use, let’s say, for weak heart power?



Stanley Chong:       I can say for all kinds of fever, we are just trying to support the body to let the fever go. That means the body, while it’s heated because they want to throw something out. So, first of all, for throwing the thing out, you have to stimulate the heart power. So, first we’ll burn the fire for the heart power. Then if you’re teenage, because the fire, energy source is from the kidney, this is our TCM system. That means, if I find you have the kidney problem, we have to add some herbs to support this that makes this connection.



Gerrit Keferstein:    White herbs will that be?



Stanley Chong:       I’m trying to find the English.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Oh, it’s all because of the Chinese translations. Okay.



Stanley Chong:       I don’t always remember all kinds of …



Gerrit Keferstein:    Of course, yes, the Chinese names, not the English names.  So, you type into Google Translate and what you actually do is you draw the Chinese symbols and that gives you the English translations.



Stanley Chong:       So, there is no English name. Also, there is Latin name. Cinnamon.



Gerrit Keferstein:    It also says Gui Xi.



Stanley Chong:       The Chinese name is Gui Xi.  You know the cinnamon, that tree, the whole tree is herb. In theory, I don’t know how you understand about some natural theory that different parts of, let’s say, a plant have different kinds of healing function. Let’s say the leaves is closer to the skin and the roots heal the body and the roots means the lower part of your legs.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, to heal a deep problem, to heal a problem related to our root, to our legs, to our hips, we would need the root of those plants.



Stanley Chong:       Yes. For the skin, I’d say the pit the trees can restore this function because pit has all the power to give it up. So, we take this part as herbs for the body to make the skin power increase and let the energy overrun as it goes up.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, in general for people who have issues with skin, the leaves of the plants would be the one that you’d go for.



Stanley Chong:       Yes, yes.  One more thing, we have used these herbs for several thousand years. So, this kind of results is expected. So, we had the experience in the past. We have the proven theory. The pit of the trees represent the pit of your body, let’s say the skin. So, we have experience of this.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, let’s talk about my fear. Let’s talk about my water. What would be your next treatment steps there? Because of course I notice I have fear, many fears.



Stanley Chong:       So, fear is because of your adrenal system. It’s very easy to activate it. That means you need more … I also teach Ayurveda medicine outside.  Ayurveda is very good in that they define the body type. That means if I find you have water weakness, we will ask you to under this weakness you have to undergo a training or a retreat, some kind of retreat for your body, especially for this.



Gerrit Keferstein:    What is this fear? Could you tell me what my main fear is?



Stanley Chong:       I think this you can find … hypnosis can help. If you can find hypnosis…



Gerrit Keferstein:    To find the deep fear, to be able to get there.



Stanley Chong:       Yes, yes. Final, why to post this? And they will have their methods and that you come back to tell me. Then I give you some herbs to this kind of power to let your body to … We say this is emotion, this is a misunderstanding of our body and the case, then the case will be in your body. It’s a kind of alarm to your body but this alarm may be is a wrong alarm. So, you have to find, let’s say, meditation or some kind of … building some kind of understanding of this kind of fear to turn you to another way.



Gerrit Keferstein:    What can I do or what can people in general, also the listeners, do because I think that fear is something everybody of us experiences more or less and I think living completely without fear is not possible. There’s always going to be fear. It’s just a matter of can I overcome that fear. And of course I always notice the fears myself and most of the fears I’m able to overcome. Some of the fears obviously I’m not able to overcome. And I think I’m not alone with that and the anxiety which is the problem of not being able to overcome any of our fears actually has become a huge problem in western societies and I think in Eastern societies as well. How would somebody be able to support his adrenal system to better be able to overcome fears that are there?



Stanley Chong:       There are two parts. The body has its own awareness of the work and you have another system to be aware of the environment. This is the brain. So, we have two parts to experience the world. One part is here and one part is here.



Gerrit Keferstein:    One part is head and one part is the heart.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah. This is the brain system.  So, we only define the world with this.



Gerrit Keferstein:    We define the world with our brain.



Stanley Chong:       We’re always concerned about our safety.  Why do we so many these kinds of emotion? Because we feel danger? Why do we feel danger? It’s because our brain is always trying to protect us, like your father – “Don’t touch this, don’t touch this” – and the reason for this is …



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, our brain’s trying to protect us always like a father like “No, don’t touch this, don’t go there, don’t do this, don’t do that, that’s is dangerous. No, don’t try that.”



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, you’re right but your father is not trying to block you from anything. He just blocks you from dangers but sometime, when it’s over, it becomes your life problem. So, that’s why we have to meditate, why we have to talk to someone we love. Fear is not that fear. So, sometimes he knows that he can help. Sometimes theory can help. Sometimes even the Christian theory can help, you have some background, you have a lot of favor to support you. When you feel this problem of emotion, you go to that area. So, symptom, it can guide you.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Breaking that down, again, to the adrenal system because adrenal system with all the hormones that it’s involved with, with cortisol and also the kidney hormones, how is it possible with herbal medicine to support the adrenals? The adrenals are, like you said, they play a huge role in anxiety and controlling anxiety? And what I see a lot in the athletes I work with and also some of the patients, you can measure the adrenals with a profile of cortisol and testosterone.  Sometimes because of their lifestyles and the way they live their, because of lack of sleep, because of a lot of work, because of environmental toxins, not optimal nutrition, the adrenals can be fatigued or it can be at least in the beginning of becoming fatigued. So, what type of herbal medicine would you prescribe someone who has like weak adrenals and to bring up the kidneys?



Stanley Chong:       First of all, you have to explain more about how TCM understands about fear.  We talk about the kidney.  We talk about the chi strength because with some kind of strength.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Is that only for the water element people that the kidney represents strength?



Stanley Chong:       For other elements, they have the fear also but they don’t affect your life a lot. They have other habits to carry out … as I said, they can solve this fear through other habits. So, they may have bad habits but this is a must.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, I’m a water type person where, let’s say, life is not dominated by the fear but the fear plays a role in my life for all water people. What are the other four elements and what plays a role in their lives?



Stanley Chong:       Fire, the wood element, the metal element, and the earth.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Fire, wood, metal and earth.  So, what’s the main theme, the main topic for fire element person?



Stanley Chong:       Let’s say fire element person has enthusiasm with things. So, they’re also energetic. So, they like to feel everything.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Feel and experience everything.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, they like to feel the world.  They like to touch the world.  So, the point is that they’re too open, too straight, easily hurt. So, in their life they’re easy to accumulate, some kind of greedy. Their heart grows, grows, grows. So, what their body has or their body situation is too much hurting. And no one explains to them “Why I’m open to you and you hurt me.” It’s like this.  So, for the fire element, they should learn more about humans. They have to know about humans, what is a human. Even at my age, I’m 61, but I don’t really 100% understand about humans. Sometimes I think they’re courteous. Sometimes I think they’re troublesome, they close all the heart, the human.  So, sometimes this is why the body says life is kind of bad things because sometimes you want to be open to everybody but you are not expected to come back with the right thing or the same time.  Somebody will take advantage of this to hurt you, to get their benefit. So, I think this world is not good for the fire element to survive because this is too energetic.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, it’s very difficult for a fire person to survive because they’re so easily hurt as they’re so open.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, what is better? What is always … very fast direction to danger. They’re easy to defend themselves.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, this world is good for water people but dangerous world for fire people.



Stanley Chong:       But the fire people always carry happiness. This is their reward.  And water element, they cannot have a lot of happiness.  When they defend themselves, they cannot receive happiness but for the fire element it’s different.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, it’s perfect if a fire person inspires the water people to live a life full of happiness and growth and glow and the water people to protect the fire people.



Stanley Chong:       We say five elements. All have this one reason to survive here.



Gerrit Keferstein:    And they’re compatible with each other?



Stanley Chong:       You can say it’s not that simple equation because we have five elements – fire, water, the metal and earth and the wood. So, people is not just one element. Everybody has five elements but some especially for some they grow very fast.  So, they become that kind of element.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Is it possible, as you grow through life, to transition from one element dominance to the other. For example, like you said, you started as a fire person, you started with openness and touching and feeling the world but then you might get hurt by the world and you start to close down your heart. Is it possible to become a different dominance then to transition from fire to water or transition from fire to wood or from fire to metal? Is that possible?



Stanley Chong:       I think, in my understanding, Buddha can do it.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Buddha can do it. Can we?



Stanley Chong:       Yes, he can do it because he has a very strong background, his understanding about the world, he sees the world different than us. So, what we see is because of our understanding. We see the world as a threat, the strong eats the weak.



Gerrit Keferstein:    The strong eats the weak. That’s how we see the world.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, we see the world like this but Buddha has different idea. So, what we are leaving is struggling for life. Buddha, they don’t want to. They believe if you love the world, the world will love you but at a certain level it’s right. If you really love people, if I have a friend who in 10 years hasn’t spent any money, they didn’t buy any shirt, everybody knows what kind of person he is. They are donating clothes that they don’t want and sometimes they will invite him to their house for dinner and sometimes they will give him some money or maybe we say the man is trying to help them. The help is not just for money – I help you. So, sometimes this cause the change but not the reason “I go to you because of money. You hire me because of money” because “I want to help you. You want to give.” This is a very good reason. Although it is the same behavior but it’s just different from myself and he’s very comfortable. So, I think in life they never tell you how to do. Education is wrong. Everything is wrong with education. They tell you about this is not the way. You not only have this choice. You have lots of choices. You can define your lifestyle. We can define the life the way we like. So, first of all, are you there to define? Are you ready to do this? Sometimes people are thinking too simple about the world, even me. So, I think most important thing is to continue to learn because in Ayurveda, life is a learning, disease is a misunderstanding.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Life is a learning and disease is a misunderstanding.



Stanley Chong:       Yes or wrong definition of something.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Also, when you talk about fear where some fears might be reasonable like the fear of a hot stove, if you don’t want to touch a hot stove. It’s very reasonable but the fear of people hurting you might be unreasonable because, yeah, maybe 10 years ago somebody hurt you but that doesn’t mean that the next person is going to hurt you. And that’s what you refer to as a misunderstanding that can lead to more misunderstanding. It’s a false belief and that can lead to disease and that can go in many different directions.



Stanley Chong:       Yes, this is why the disease come.



Gerrit Keferstein:    That’s the why.



Stanley Chong:       Yes because your fear is for what is standing in front of this. Try to find it out.  Then you’ll have the solution to solve.  At least I know you’re there.  Awareness is always a good technique to live better.  This is from Buddhism.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Awareness and meditation to learn that.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah, awareness meditation, every time is meditation because every time you have awareness. So, this is what Buddhism try to tell us.



Gerrit Keferstein:    It’s not about the 20 minutes or 60 minutes of meditation. It’s about always noticing with all the senses, noticing and not judging but noticing and sometimes maybe asking “Interesting. Why is this there? Why do I always behave this way? Why do I always seem to fall in the same pattern?  Where did it come from?” We talked about the fire and the water. What about the wood?



Stanley Chong:       Before I talk about this, I’ll talk more about the TCM. You’ll all the TCM process is trying to be aware. Don’t justify. Don’t justify. Every time I touch you, don’t justify. Don’t justify. If I touch you, don’t justify. If you don’t justify, you’ll come to a point. This does not come by justifying. This comes by the fear.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, it’s not an early decision you make. When you just be aware and you just take your time to take all your senses and noticing everything, the solution will come to you. You don’t have to grab it. It will come to you.



Stanley Chong:       It’s all natural. For a normal TCM doctor, when they touch you, they’re trying to make you as they think but I’m trying to make you as you are because I judge awareness. I am not judging. I am not judging. I am not judging. Even if I am not judging, you will judge. So, if I say I’m not judge, I will watch as it is. If I judge, I will become closed. So, this is TCM.



Gerrit Keferstein:    It’s meditation for you.



Stanley Chong:       Yes it is.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Sitting here with me and diagnosing me, you use meditation.



Stanley Chong:       I hear your body.



Gerrit Keferstein:    You have to be aware. You have to be wide open with all the senses.



Stanley Chong:       Yeah. When I touch it, I find it. You say “I have pain” but your tendon will tell me. If it has pain, it’s stiff. If not pain, it’s soft. So, you will not just know your body. You know the people, especially the patients, are very tricky. Sometimes the disease is very tricky. You have pain but the problem is somewhere else. It’s always like this. Life is like this.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you go through the different layers and don’t be misguided by seeing something in the first layer. Look deeper, look one layer beneath that, feel, see, hear, smell for what’s beneath there.



Stanley Chong:       Yes, you try to make three points to locate one thing, not just one point. Don’t just “I see what it is” and big decision on this. This will always lead you the wrong way. So, I say, TCM is a human thing. We want to know you.



Gerrit Keferstein:    This morning I was walking down Ko Shin street, the Chinese medicine street in the western part, west from here, because my hotel is close and they have all those dried sea foods. They have the fish bladder and the shark fins and abalone, they have a lot of cordyceps mushroom, obviously the black moss and they have just tons of … the whole shop is full like there’s many shops in a row, maybe 20, 30, 40 shops and they all have kilos of it. I was wondering where does it go? Do restaurants buy that? Do private people buy that? Do TCM clinics buy that?



Stanley Chong:       Even TCMs have different philosophy. Different TCMs have different philosophy. Let’s say, I’m not trying to let the patient cure something of them because we believe everything has a reason and has a result, that is you kill something, you will carry the energy that you will kill.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Say that again. I didn’t understand that.



Stanley Chong:       Let’s say, if you steal somebody’s wallet and you leave a money in your pocket, that will be stolen by someone again. We understand this. So, we’re never trying to let people kill things because of their eating or just for their … If people say “I’m rich. So, I buy this,” I think in food you have a lot of choice. You can choose to kill. You can choose not to kill. Although you can find to choose something kills less, I can say it this way, that means even a TCM doctor is trying to give you a philosophy of a better lifestyle, we always talk about how to live a better lifestyle. Are you happy? Do you have happiness in your work? If you cannot, then you come to me because of emotional issues, then I will tell you. Every time I make your to move. I am not changing. I just let you go back to the natural part. That means you can select that. That selection is your future. It not I give you energy. I don’t give you energy. I just give you a beginning. Then you can make your choice. Some people always choose the same thing again and they come back for solution. So, what they’re, you cannot solve that unhappiness. Although they can have money but they’re not happy but this part has to be solved because what we’re trying to do is we get the money, we’re happy. So, is what result we have and we need to fight for. So, I’m trying to, under the treatment, not just the body problem, all the problems because of your definition of problem, your wrong definition.



Gerrit Keferstein:    What you really talk about is again those different layers where you say the emotion, the belief and the definition, as you say that. I’ll just say let’s just say those three things are very similar – the emotion, the belief, the way you see the world, your definition of the world – this is the base and from that everything else develops and your body develops according to that, your habits form according to that, and also problems or diseases might develop according to that. So, you might develop a heart problem which is really far away from the emotion, you might develop a heart problem and yet you can treat the heart, it’s possible but the problem is going to come back because the foundation, the emotion, the environment and the definition of the way you see the world, that’s what led to the problem and you got to start there. You got to start treatment there.



Stanley Chong:       So, this is a different philosophy from TCM. Every TCM doctor has his universe.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Would you consider yourself as a traditional TCM doctor? Are you yourself a little bit different from many other TCM doctors?



Stanley Chong:       I think I have difference from other TCM doctors because I define the TCM healing as a kind of a soul healing.



Gerrit Keferstein:    TCM healing is soul healing.



Stanley Chong:       Yes. And secondly, I never stop at the TCM finding. That means we have 2500 years of some experience, some explanation of all those things. I don’t 100% trust these things. Let’s say I’m studying Ayurveda, I was seeing these two historical treatment methods, the theory, let’s say I don’t believe in only this…



Gerrit Keferstein:    Not only the pulse, not only the tongue but only the combination of all obsevations justify …



Stanley Chong:       So, the therapy is the same.  I don’t 100% believe the TCM. I don’t 100% believe the Ayurveda. I don’t 100% believe the western findings. I’m trying to make a combination.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Take a little bit of all systems.



Stanley Chong:       I see more clear before I do diagnosis.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, would you consider going back to that medicine street there with all those fancy dried Sea Foods to treat? Would you consider that part of show treatment as TCM, not part of the true healing because you said the true healing is maybe some levels deeper than just eating this herb or just eating ginseng or just eating the dried turtle.



Stanley Chong:       So, the right treatment is about the soul, spiritual. That means you have to find out this part. You have to realize. We’re working to recognize this part. You have to recognize what you really want because if you’re under difficult situations, you always look for the wrong treatment or going in wrong direction but you know the answer, only that when you’re treating for something with your eyes closed, you’re only imagining with your eyes, so you always feel difficult.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, it’s about finding a way to … the brain is always trying to protect ourselves, turn it off in a way and digging deeper into the emotional side. Like you said, you can use meditation for that, you can use hypnosis for that. Some treatment centers use even psychedelic drugs for that to dig deeper, to get under the surface, under the hood in our subconscious to look at the definition of how we look at the world at the soul. That’s where the ultimate treatment is. Everything else on the surface might work for a while but it’s always going to come back.



Stanley Chong:       Because let’s say you take medicine, you have allergy. Something can cure your allergy but you’re still , allergy will come back again.



Gerrit Keferstein:    Because you’re still taking that food that causes the allergy.



Stanley Chong:       You have to cut this.  Then you don’t need any treatment and you will be perfect. The point is that people have to open their eyes for the possibility.  It’s not just the problem.



Gerrit Keferstein:    And we seen that in western medicine all over and over and over and over again people using anti-inflammatory drugs to treat an inflammation issue but this inflammation issue is caused by the way they live their life, by the way they eat, by the way they are exposed to environmental and toxins in the environment, by the way they’re probably not sleeping enough. And we know that by sleeping more, by taking the right foods, the inflammation can heal, the body can handle the inflammation on its own and we wouldn’t need anti-inflammatory drugs.  So, it’s a similar thing just taking the drug. The problems can always come back if you don’t change why the problem is there.



Stanley Chong:       That is what we understand. This cycle is what you’re making.



Gerrit Keferstein:    So, you do something and get the result back. And then you should evaluate with awareness.



Stanley Chong:       Yes, always awareness of this because let’s say we’re always doing good thing to people.  It’s not because of your mind. You’re treating your mind. You’re treating your soul. It’s not treating your body.  That means if I do good things, I will feel happiness. This is the cure for your soul. Even when you were burn, you hurt the soul. Everybody can hurt their soul because they have a history, there is memory in the past. We carry the DNA from our grandfather, grandmother and in this day and age, it carries the message of the past but in our life we cannot open this part, we can’t open this DNA but we know that if the DNA is damaged, you can do something to cure it. Let’s say all kinds of sadness, all kinds of wrong things that you give back to people, if you don’t understand about this … You’re trying to heal your soul, you’re doing good thing to people, you stop blaming, then your heart will feel better, you get immunity, you’re starting to cure. This is what we always believe. In Hong Kong, I think in China, it’s even worse. The TCM doctor is very low level.  They don’t have power.  They don’t have money but they find that they are energetic to be a TCM doctors because it is the philosophy that can cure the soul. So, they continue to go for that.  Even in Hong Kong, TCM is always happening.



Gerrit Keferstein:    That’s wonderful. Thank you for pursuing that path, for sharing that path with us, for teaching us about the way and thank you for your time.  I learned a lot.


I hope you enjoyed that. And if you work in a field where people come to you on a daily basis with their problems, be it problems in sports performance or problems in health and your whole identity is about finding solutions to those problems, you can certainly appreciate what Master Stanley Chong was talking about there in the last 60 minutes. If you liked it, leave a review on iTunes. If you didn’t like it, leave a review on iTunes. You can just leave one star and say “This is all bullshit what those guys talked about” or you can leave five stars and say “It’s a really value perspective to add to my repertoire.” Whatever your opinion, just post them on iTunes and I appreciate all of them. It’s only going to make me and everybody else better. Just give me some feedback. And also go to Twitter and add me at @GKeferstein, shoot me a message, give me some suggestions on topics to cover either in my blog or in the podcast and also leave comments on the articles and I’m always happy to reply to those. So long. May the flow be with you. See you in the next episode.



Tags : 5 elementsacupunctureadrenal functionalternative medicineChinese medicinedisease preventionfood is medicineherbal medicinemeditationtcmtraditional Chinese medicine

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